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	<title>Comments on: Applications versus Documents</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.snell-pym.org.uk/archives/2006/08/21/applications-versus-documents/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.snell-pym.org.uk/archives/2006/08/21/applications-versus-documents/</link>
	<description>Sarah and Alaric Snell-Pym living in interesting times</description>
	<pubDate>Wed, 19 Nov 2008 19:02:48 +0000</pubDate>
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		<item>
		<title>By: alaric</title>
		<link>http://www.snell-pym.org.uk/archives/2006/08/21/applications-versus-documents/#comment-4446</link>
		<dc:creator>alaric</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Aug 2006 14:19:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://snell-pym.org.uk/archives/2006/08/21/applications-versus-documents/#comment-4446</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Oh, I didn't say filesystem browsers didn't need improving as well... :-)&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;That includes the possibilities of ditching folder structures in exchange for dynamic searches, although I tend to find that both have their places - my work stuff is all neatly organised by project, while I'd like things like photos to be searchable.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;The possibility of decoupling file storage from the core of a UI, so that different people can use different file storage managers, is also interesting - and would be easier to do without app-based file open/save dialog boxes; a document found in a folder-filesystem viewer, or in a search window, or in a versioned project browser, is still a document that (using a common activation API) can be double-clicked or dragged into an application to open up; and all of those viewers and search windows could be places that documents could be dragged TO to save them.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, I didn't say filesystem browsers didn't need improving as well... <img src='http://www.snell-pym.org.uk/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>

<p>That includes the possibilities of ditching folder structures in exchange for dynamic searches, although I tend to find that both have their places - my work stuff is all neatly organised by project, while I'd like things like photos to be searchable.</p>

<p>The possibility of decoupling file storage from the core of a UI, so that different people can use different file storage managers, is also interesting - and would be easier to do without app-based file open/save dialog boxes; a document found in a folder-filesystem viewer, or in a search window, or in a versioned project browser, is still a document that (using a common activation API) can be double-clicked or dragged into an application to open up; and all of those viewers and search windows could be places that documents could be dragged TO to save them.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Alex B</title>
		<link>http://www.snell-pym.org.uk/archives/2006/08/21/applications-versus-documents/#comment-4428</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex B</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Aug 2006 10:56:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://snell-pym.org.uk/archives/2006/08/21/applications-versus-documents/#comment-4428</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Preface: I am trying hard not to be intellectually limited to app-centric computing as The Only Conceivable Way.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;However: I am not so sure that the filesystem is the place to have users navigating. They have to create folders before creating documents, can't remember which folder they saved a document to, can accidentally delete documents, have to manually version documents as they modify them/receive modified versions from others.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;These issues are largely navigational and could be solved by the OS vendors, but they can't be bothered. (A global file-search does not suffice!) And for collaborative situations, having an app like Groove or Sharepoint manage documents is essential; they provide project-oriented document browsing, versioning and security without the user needing to fiddle with folders and saved searches and permissions and the like.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;So until filesystem browsers get a LOT better, I'll stick with app-centric computing :-)&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Preface: I am trying hard not to be intellectually limited to app-centric computing as The Only Conceivable Way.</p>

<p>However: I am not so sure that the filesystem is the place to have users navigating. They have to create folders before creating documents, can't remember which folder they saved a document to, can accidentally delete documents, have to manually version documents as they modify them/receive modified versions from others.</p>

<p>These issues are largely navigational and could be solved by the OS vendors, but they can't be bothered. (A global file-search does not suffice!) And for collaborative situations, having an app like Groove or Sharepoint manage documents is essential; they provide project-oriented document browsing, versioning and security without the user needing to fiddle with folders and saved searches and permissions and the like.</p>

<p>So until filesystem browsers get a LOT better, I'll stick with app-centric computing <img src='http://www.snell-pym.org.uk/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: alaric</title>
		<link>http://www.snell-pym.org.uk/archives/2006/08/21/applications-versus-documents/#comment-4307</link>
		<dc:creator>alaric</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Aug 2006 12:09:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://snell-pym.org.uk/archives/2006/08/21/applications-versus-documents/#comment-4307</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Yeah, that one had me for a while ;-)&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I've found that you can drag the little icon from the title bar of a Finder window into a Save As browser to make it show that directory, but it's fiddly to get everything side by side to manage it.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;The OSX finder sucks, though - lots of people seem to be saying this. It's odd and inconsistent and they really need to rewrite it.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I read an interesting review somewhere that said it appeared to be confused between two models:&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;ol&gt;
&lt;li&gt;The spatial model, where double clicking a folder should open a new window showing the contents of that folder; a 1:1 correspondance between windows and folders, UI objects and domain-model objects.&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt; The browser model, where a window is heavyweight thing with all the links down the side, and double clicking should change what that window displays. The window is an interface to a world of files and folders.&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;/ol&gt;

&lt;p&gt;You can flip any one window between the two display modes in the Finder, but it's a bit arbitrary what new windows open like.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Here's the full moan:&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href="http://arstechnica.com/articles/paedia/finder.ars/1" rel="nofollow"&gt;Ars Technica article on the Finder&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I'm all for giving people choice between UI styles rather than enforcing a monoculture, but the finder just confuses the two...&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href="http://modeemi.fi/~tuomov/vis/vis-paper.pdf" rel="nofollow"&gt;This&lt;/a&gt; is one potential approach.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, that one had me for a while <img src='http://www.snell-pym.org.uk/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>

<p>I've found that you can drag the little icon from the title bar of a Finder window into a Save As browser to make it show that directory, but it's fiddly to get everything side by side to manage it.</p>

<p>The OSX finder sucks, though - lots of people seem to be saying this. It's odd and inconsistent and they really need to rewrite it.</p>

<p>I read an interesting review somewhere that said it appeared to be confused between two models:</p>

<ol>
<li>The spatial model, where double clicking a folder should open a new window showing the contents of that folder; a 1:1 correspondance between windows and folders, UI objects and domain-model objects.</li>
<li> The browser model, where a window is heavyweight thing with all the links down the side, and double clicking should change what that window displays. The window is an interface to a world of files and folders.</li>
</ol>

<p>You can flip any one window between the two display modes in the Finder, but it's a bit arbitrary what new windows open like.</p>

<p>Here's the full moan:</p>

<p><a href="http://arstechnica.com/articles/paedia/finder.ars/1" rel="nofollow">Ars Technica article on the Finder</a></p>

<p>I'm all for giving people choice between UI styles rather than enforcing a monoculture, but the finder just confuses the two...</p>

<p><a href="http://modeemi.fi/~tuomov/vis/vis-paper.pdf" rel="nofollow">This</a> is one potential approach.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Charlee</title>
		<link>http://www.snell-pym.org.uk/archives/2006/08/21/applications-versus-documents/#comment-4287</link>
		<dc:creator>Charlee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Aug 2006 09:21:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://snell-pym.org.uk/archives/2006/08/21/applications-versus-documents/#comment-4287</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;You make so much sense.  Why are you not the official oracle on these things?&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You make so much sense.  Why are you not the official oracle on these things?</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: andyjpb</title>
		<link>http://www.snell-pym.org.uk/archives/2006/08/21/applications-versus-documents/#comment-4286</link>
		<dc:creator>andyjpb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Aug 2006 09:04:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://snell-pym.org.uk/archives/2006/08/21/applications-versus-documents/#comment-4286</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Yes: it's all true!
Even the File Open/Save dialogs under MAC OS X are a bit of a pain. Navigating to anywhere that isn't the current directory or on of the quick link thingies involves a lot of effort... That's all after you've dicosvered the little drop down part of the dialog.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes: it's all true!
Even the File Open/Save dialogs under MAC OS X are a bit of a pain. Navigating to anywhere that isn't the current directory or on of the quick link thingies involves a lot of effort... That's all after you've dicosvered the little drop down part of the dialog.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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